1776 Engine Build

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1776 Engine Build

Post  George&Charlie on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:21 pm

Hi guys, I'm after some advice with regards to building a 1776.

I've had every intention of getting round to rebuilding our 1600tp after the bottom end started to rattle like a box of spanners!!. I'm pretty sure the problem was with the crank bearings, but I've only stripped the engine down to a short block. Our heads seem to be fine but I need to give them a good clean up to make sure.

Basically we've realised that at the moment it's looking like I'm never going to get the time to do this myself and we're going to have to get someone to do it for us. If we're going to be paying out for a rebuild we've decided that we're going to go bigger and get it built up to a 1776. I assume I can get someone like cool air/the engine shop to build up the engine for us, once we've decided on which parts we want to go with?

There are so many differing opinions on the internet about what parts to use with regards to cams, cranks, heads etc and I wondered whether anyone on here would have some opinions/suggestions.

I'd like to keep the budget below £1500 but can go a bit over this if necessary, is this number realistic for what we want to achieve?. We're after a strong, reliable and hopefully quickish engine.

At the moment we're intending to use our 1600 case and heads but have them machined for the larger barrels and pistons we'll also have the case full flowed while we're at it. Is this a good idea, or should we be buying a new case for peace of mind?

Any help would be great Smile

Cheers
George


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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  Rob on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:48 am

I think for £1500 your going to be pushing your budget if you end up getting someone else to build it.

You should be able to bring in a 1776 at about £1500 if you can use your old case, heads etc and build it yourself.

Read a few books and add up what you think you need and work from there, remember to add machining of heads and case, fullflow and a full dynamic balance.

Check out your valve guides and seat as well as they might need doing.l

I can measure up your current crank, case etc to see if there still useable.

1776, 110 cam, stock heads and dellorto's should be good for 90-100bhp.
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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  George&Charlie on Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:35 am

Rob wrote:I think for £1500 your going to be pushing your budget if you end up getting someone else to build it.

You should be able to bring in a 1776 at about £1500 if you can use your old case, heads etc and build it yourself.

Read a few books and add up what you think you need and work from there, remember to add machining of heads and case, fullflow and a full dynamic balance.

Check out your valve guides and seat as well as they might need doing.l

I can measure up your current crank, case etc to see if there still useable.

1776, 110 cam, stock heads and dellorto's should be good for 90-100bhp.

Cheers Rob that's really useful, I think we'll save our money and not bother with the 1776 for now then. We'll just have it rebuilt as a 1600 and stick some twin carbs on it Smile

I'd really appreciate you measuring up the case for us, that'd be grand. Are there any other worthwhile upgrades/modifications for a 1600 to increase it's longevity/performance etc, or is it best to just stay stock?

Thanks again
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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  mikeyweaves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:26 am

Why not bung a set of 1641 or even 1679 Barrels and pistons on for a little additional cheap horsepower!
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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  George&Charlie on Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:12 pm

Soooo, after getting the nod from Charlie Wink we've decided we're going to build the 1776 while we've got the money to do it. It looks like we're never going to do it for £1500 so after pricing everything up I'm hoping we can do it for under £2500.

The plan will be to use the following parts and our aim will be around 100bhp, any advice with regards to the parts list below would be awesome, and advice on anything that I've missed. I'd also like some advice on the rockers and pushrods that would be best suited to the heads/cam etc.

Bottom End
******************
CB Forged 4140 Crank
Engle 110 cam
Forged lightweight 8 dowel SSP
Cam bearings
Crank bearings

Top End
******************
Forged 90.5 barrels and pistons (Not sure which brand to use as the Mahle ones are hard to get hold of)
Rockers?
Pushrods?
CB 044 Super Mag Heads with 40x35.5mm valves & single springs (I've read that dual springs on a 1776 with a 110 cam can do more damage than good)
CB Matched ported manifolds
40 Dellortos

Cheers guys
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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  Rob on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:34 am

add the following for the
bottom end;

Chrome moly gland nut
light weight cam follows (always best to go with new ones with a new cam anyway)
quality 26mm oil pump (gene berg or similar) + full flow cover
quality bottom pulley (have this balanced with the bottom end, same goes for the clutch)

Top end;
single heavy duty springs are fine with a 110+ add uprated retainers and caps. (should come with heads?)
you can use stock rockers with bolt up shafts added, with this setup you can just get away with stk push rods although you might not get the rocker geometry 100% as you cant adjust the length, if its going to get a lot of abuse you might want to think about upgrading or
got for 1.25 rocker which will definitely need uprated cut to length push rods, chrome moly tend to be noisier than ali so they might be better on a daily driver.
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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  George&Charlie on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:27 am

Soooo, I've been doing even more research and getting some advice from Paul Miller at harry harpics.

He seems to think that a 1914 would be better value for money and just as reliable as a 1776 provided the bottom end balancing is done well.

Forged Mahle 94mm barrels and pistons seem to be more readily available and this would mean we wouldn't have to opt for second hand mahle or new AA 90.5mm barrels and pistons that we'd use for a 1776.

In the suggested spec that Paul Miller gave us, he said he uses mofoco 050 heads which I don't really know anything about, are they as good as cb performance heads or are they a cheap alternative that he uses because he gets them for a good price?

I thought the spec for our 1776 was almost finished but now I'm not sure whether we should go a bit bigger.

Any thoughts?
Cheers
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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  Rob on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:05 am

dont know to much about the heads

Have a read of this shoptalk thread, didn't have time to read it all but mainly seems positive.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=340554

Had heard that mahle had stopped making 90.5's so i guess 94's would be the way to go.

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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  Rob on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:54 am

Hi George

Just checking you don't want the 36 idf's I've got any more?
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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  George&Charlie on Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:02 am

Sorry Rob, I think they're going to be a bit small now we're going for a bigger engine than the 1600.
We're going for some 40 dellortos I think.

Cheers though
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Re: 1776 Engine Build

Post  Rob on Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:51 am

No worries, just wanted to double before I stick them up for sale.
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